Announcer (00:01):
Hey BK with Ofer Cohen.
Sue Donoghue (00:03):
I really think that transformation I've seen in Prospect Park and having it now be a place that is such a Mecca and people do feel comfortable coming at all hours, really mirrors the transformation of Brooklyn.
Ofer Cohen (00:16):
Sue Donoghue, the president of the Prospect Park Alliance. Thanks for being here this morning. You had a long commute to come to our office. Tell us about it.
Sue Donoghue (00:25):
Wasn't too bad actually. It was a nice walk and it's a great thing about living and working in Brooklyn is that you can walk most places.
Ofer Cohen (00:32):
What are we, five blocks from? Prospect Park? Six blocks?
Sue Donoghue (00:36):
Yeah. Not so many. Yeah.
Ofer Cohen (00:38):
So you know, Prospect Park has always been, I used to live like right here on Bergen street for many years and I, you know, spent a tremendous amount of time at Prospect Park. You know, bike ran there until I earned my ankle biked until I got my Peloton. took my kids there a lot. How did you get to work at the park?
Sue Donoghue (01:03):
It's a good question Ofer and it was a bit of a circuitous path actually. right prior to taking this job as president of the Prospect Park Alliance, I worked in the Bloomberg administration. And prior to that I actually worked on wall street, which is interesting, not your typical path. So I, I decided between kid number two and number three that I really could not keep doing that job. It involved a lot of travel, a lot of travel to the West coast and really didn't have the psychic gratification, that I was looking for. So I left that and actually went back to graduate school and got a masters, at NYU in public administration. And when I was just about the end of that program, I was hired by city hall to go to the parks department and oversee the planYC, initiatives at the parks department.
Ofer Cohen (01:58):
So when you worked for the Bloomberg administration, you lived in Brooklyn already?
Sue Donoghue (02:02):
I did, yeah. We moved to Brooklyn in 96 actually. I was, working in living downtown, we decided to buy and back then Brooklyn was actually a little bit more affordable and so, and my husband had been born and raised in Brooklyn Heights and so we, our first place we bought was in Brooklyn Heights and it was great because I could actually sometimes walk to work or definitely walk home from work and it was a great first place to live.
Ofer Cohen (02:31):
Did you move to Park Slope when you took the job at Prospect Park?
Sue Donoghue (02:35):
No, actually, interestingly enough we moved to Park Slope. A couple of things prompted that. we had our second boy and if, you know, when you have two young boys, you really need to get them out and run them like puppies and at that time, Brooklyn Heights didn't have, you know, didn't have Brooklyn bridge park and it had a great playground but we needed space. And the other thing that's interesting is, my second, I had a right after 9/11 living in Brooklyn Heights, you know, around 9/11, was difficult. It was really intense. There was soot, there was, it was a difficult place to be for sure. And I'll never forget, we were walking down to the promenade after it had happened and I was very pregnant because my second was born in November and a policeman stopped and he got out of the car and he gave me an air mask. He said, what are you doing out and you should have this cause I was pregnant. And so that weekend after we actually went to Prospect Park, I knew enough, I had never been there. and we sat in Prospect Park and I had a, you know, a two year old, and was very pregnant and it was absolutely beautiful. and it did feel special. It was, and to think back now, it's kind of ironic, right? But it was a real turning point. You know, my husband had kind of been saying, we should look at park slope. We should look at, moving to that area. And I thought, Oh my God, we're gonna move farther into Brooklyn. And then you go there and you spend time. And, it really worked in terms of our family and our kids and it was, it was beautiful to have the park right there. So in 2002, we moved to Park Slope. I took the Prospect's Alliance job after the, after the end of the Bloomberg administration. So I've been in the Alliance job, since 2014 so I worked through the end of the Bloomberg administration and then was hired to run the Prospect Park Alliance.
Ofer Cohen (04:31):
and that was just a perfect transition being working on, you know, transforming public spaces and parks.
Sue Donoghue (04:39):
Absolutely the Prospect Park Alliance is actually a public private partnership with the city. So we work in the park, they alliances there in the park under a license agreement with the city. And so we work hand in hand with the parks department. And so my experience working in city government was certainly really helpful. My experience with parks and the understanding and recognizing the importance of parks to communities was really helpful. and I, you know, obviously had a love of the park and knew the importance both personally as a mom and for my own kids, but certainly knew the importance of a great big public park to the well being of a community and of the bar. Really you think about it, you know, Prospect Park sits in the middle of what would be the third largest city if it was a city right in America. And, the role that Prospect Park plays, you just said it yourself. I mean, people, it's a daily, daily, amenity for people and it's so important.
Ofer Cohen (05:41):
And yet so many people, including myself, and I'm sure you at some point take parks especially prospect park for granted, right? It's just there. It's a city amenity, right? It doesn't give us much any way, you know, shitty subway and a great park. Right? And then nobody's really thinking, Oh, this is, something I should invest in, or this is something that needs any kind of thoughtful leadership or just tell me about it.
Sue Donoghue (06:09):
Yeah, absolutely. It's such a good point. I do think that we do tend to take parks for granted. It is at those moments like I described, you know, after a significant event, people flock to their parks. Like my experience going to Prospect Park is not unlike after 9/11 central park became a gathering place as a place where people go to commune when they want to be with others in a great environment. but you're right, I do think people tend to take it for granted. different from when the Alliance started 30 years ago in 1987 it was very much neighborhood and community driven because of the parks were in terrible disrepair. They had been largely abandoned by the city. They really were lacking investment. We had, it's hard to imagine now, but we had boarded up buildings and parts of the park that people absolutely would not go into. And it was the neighbors around the park, a lot of moms and parents who said, this is crazy. We have this beautiful, beautiful park that people are not using. And so that's really what spurred, the city. The first thing that they did was they appointed a park administrator of Central Park and of Prospect Park to say we need someone local and on the ground to be building interest and be building support. I still have that title of park administrator. So I'm president of the Alliance and park administrator and the Alliance, the nonprofit organization was formed with the eye towards getting individuals, getting neighbors, getting community organizations involved in really taking back and supporting the park. And, I really think that transformation you've seen in Prospect Park and having it now be a place that is such a Mecca and people do feel comfortable coming at all hours really mirrors the transformation of Brooklyn, right?.
Ofer Cohen (08:00):
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. I mean, there's so many. I mean, I remember just biking or running through it over the years. I mean, there's so many like nook and crannies and there's so many things that you kind of, Oh, I've never actually seen this. Or I'm like, once you kinda get off the main path, but I remember a stat about the biggest lawn in the par.
Sue Donoghue (08:24):
Exactly contains the largest uninterrupted open space of any park in the country. It's over a mile along that long meadow. that was it. You know, the really cool thing about Prospect Park is it's all manmade. It was created, by visionary park designers. The same individuals who created central park created Prospect Park. The Prospect Park was created 10 years later. So we like to say that, you know, Olmsted and Vaux got their start in central park and they really go it right in Prospect Park in 1865 actually.
Ofer Cohen (09:00):
And what was the, what was that land before?
Sue Donoghue (09:02):
It was, it was pretty much open space. There hadn't, there wasn't that much development beyond, where you know, where Prospect Park starts. But when you think about it, it's so visionary, right? To take 585 acres and they, they were visionary. They did foresee that Brooklyn was going to be growing and that, that it would need a defined open space. Really for the masses to enjoy.
Ofer Cohen (09:28):
And I think about it, the waterfront was so heavily utilized by industry.
Sue Donoghue (09:35):
Yeah, exactly, exactly. And it was also, you know, the streets where, you know, there wasn't the plumbing and the, you know, that there is, so the streets were in a pleasant place to walk and wander, you know, to have green space and open lawns and a meddow , you know, they really saw it as integral to the quality of life of a growing, bustling city, much as it still is today.
Ofer Cohen (09:59):
What is your favorite, maybe hard to name your favorite child? What was your favorite place within the park?
Sue Donoghue (10:09):
That is such an interesting question. I think for me, my favorite place in the park is absolutely walking the paths in the Woodlands, in the ravine where it's quiet, where we have waterfalls, where we, where you can absolutely forget that you are in New York city. You know, I mean, and that's really the beauty of Prospect Park, right? You can get lost in it. You can, there's, you don't see big buildings, you and, and given, you know, some of the work we've done in the restoration and bringing back the water chorus and recreating the waterfalls are a part of the original design. You can feel like you're in Vermont or New Hampshire, you can really get lost, which in a busy bustling city with a lot of concrete where we all, you know, exist in our day to day, that's incredibly important. It has proven physical and health benefits, right? It's incredible that we can provide that for people,
Ofer Cohen (11:07):
But if too many people know how special it is, it won't be special anymore. In other words, you're going to go on through, go through the path and it's going to be packed.
Sue Donoghue (11:16):
Right. I know. Luckily that's where a couple of things that having 585 acres is a good thing. We can spread people out and we already, today we see over 10 million visits. It's to the park every year. I mean that's extraordinary. And, there are parts of it definitely the Long meadow places where it feels crowded, but there still is plenty of space where you can get lost and you know, take those paths and those meandering walks, I still do it.
Ofer Cohen (11:44):
You still find your way and basically get lost?
Sue Donoghue (11:48):
Absolutely. Yes. I mean, I like to, it's a way that I, take people out to better understand the park is, is wonder some of those paths and show people some of those things. so it's very much a part of my, role and just introducing and building support for the park because people are often floored that we have that, that you have those kind of spaces that are so isolated, that are so quiet and that are so restorative. So, a big part of my, you know, when I'm looking to build support or frankly, donations for the park is to take people to those areas and help them to understand that, you know, all that Prospect Park contains.
Ofer Cohen (12:32):
You've touched on a point of, you know, raising private money. Some people would say, well, isn't that the cities job and why do we need private contributions to support a part?
Sue Donoghue (12:47):
Yeah, I get that a lot. I do. And it's something that, we do, talk readily about, and you know, my answer to that is really, I wish there was enough of a tax base and enough money to go around to support everything, right? It's like, Oh, my kids were in public school and we still did things to support the school. you really need that. that public support too. And it's that combination of public and private that really helps parks to thrive. And it's a very local, impetus. You know, people are using the park every day. They see the benefits of the park and it is, I think we're stronger always with that, that the combination of public and private supporting a great public amenity.
Ofer Cohen (13:38):
Right. And, and the city is currently funding, one or two interesting projects.
Sue Donoghue (13:47):
Yes, absolutely. so working in conjunction with the city, we are, opening up, the Flatbush side of the park. So along Flatbush Avenue from Grand Army down to the zoo. there was a long stretch of open space, a sidewalk that has historically been in disrepair that we've now redone. It's beautiful. It's a big wide sidewalk with trees planted and green on either side. And we're putting a big new entrance there. So really across from BBG, the Brooklyn Botanic garden, putting a big new entrance there. because it goes back to what you were saying before Ofer, as you know, one of the biggest challenges now, we went from 30 years ago, people not using the park, 2 million or so users to now over 10, and how can we make sure that we're having opening up access to all parts of the park. So in that Northeast corner, we have some, big open areas that are, you know, that aren't as well utilize that people are, they're just adjacent to or just in from Grand army Plaza. And yet people don't know they exist or don't utilize them. So we'd need to spread people out. We need to provide more open space.
Ofer Cohen (14:55):
So much development, above market rate and affordable housing is happening on that side of the park. You want to try to encourage people to come in through that door instead of going around.
Sue Donoghue (15:09):
Right, right. We're seeing so much growth, right? Prospect, Lefferts and Flatbush and , the areas to the, you know, East of the park and we wanna we wanna open up the park and be welcoming and accessible. It's a big part of what we're looking to do is continue as the borough changes and as the neighborhoods change, make sure we're continuing to be welcoming and opening and accessible.
Ofer Cohen (15:34):
That new entrance is opening when?
Sue Donoghue (15:36):
Hopefully in September and we're making great progress and really, you know, to highlight the importance of, you know, what a park does for a neighborhood and a community. So we're going to have this new entrance. D O T is putting a bike lane along Flatbush, which is great, which will help bring more people. They're going to have a crosswalk on Flatbush there. So it will help to both ease, access to an ease, commuting to get to that entrance. And then we'll have this new entrance and I'll have a beautiful public Plaza where we'll definitely want to have. there'll be a, there'll be a citi bike, there'll be a lot for a gathering place for families. And then for us, where you come in there is, it's called the former Rose garden big open space. And it's really what we have our sights on for the next big campaign for the park in terms of our restoration.
Ofer Cohen (16:30):
So obviously, yeah, I mean the transformation of the city and Brooklyn as a whole, but especially the park, much more safe over the last 30 years. But what do you guys do to kind of keep that, extending those summer hours a little bit further down to.
Sue Donoghue (16:49):
Well, so what, what, for those of us who've been involved in parks for a long time, what you see is what really enhances the safety of open space of natural areas is people in programming. Right? The more people there are, the less likelihood of, you know, sorted or illicit activity. So that's why so much of our work is about restoring and opening areas and making them, whether it be lighting or pathways or providing interesting programming and amenities.
Ofer Cohen (17:24):
What are some of the other projects that are sort of, keeping you up at night right now?
Sue Donoghue (17:31):
Well, it's an ongoing, effort as you can well imagine. we are, we received a good amount of funding for grand army Plaza, which is really, it was envisioned as the formal grand entrance to the park. And, so luckily we received some funding from the mayor to, redo the arch, that, was really suffering from, some water damage actually leaking from the roof. And so, it was a necessity that we be able to renovate that. But that is such an iconic piece of, you know, Brooklyn.
Ofer Cohen (18:09):
What are some, some of the other pockets that you feel like you didn't even get to deal with? Things you'd really need? I mean, not right now, but maybe start raising private awareness.
Sue Donoghue (18:22):
There's many. we created this really interesting out of actually fallen trees from Sandy, this natural play area just in from that is a beautiful historic structure called the children's pool that in its original incarnation and vision was to be like the sailboat Lake and in central park beautiful pools with Bella strouds. And it now looks like an old ruin. It's been just over grown and but wonderful amenity with a lot of potential. So we have our sights set on that very much as part of our restoration of this area is really bringing that back and it's so beautiful. It's like a little secret garden. It has actually, some of the most unique, trees and tree specimens of anywhere else in the park. It's just was a very specifically, created area that, has really fallen into disrepair and we're anxious to be able to bring that back for the public for sure. It's so beautiful.
Ofer Cohen (19:28):
It's like just talking to you makes me want to just like run to get out of the office, run through the park and start walking around.
Sue Donoghue (19:38):
Exactly, and you should. It's really, it's so important. There's a study that came out recently that said two hours in nature is is you know, good for your health. You should try this two hours a week out in open space.
Ofer Cohen (19:54):
It's much easier. It's much easier to do it in the summer, but in the winter you kind of have to like gear up. I love the park in the snow. We didn't really get a lot of snow this season, this winter so far, but I just love it over there and the snow.
Sue Donoghue (20:12):
I actually really love it in the winter in general cause you really, you see different things that you wouldn't be otherwise because of canopy cover. It's actually, it's, it's so beautiful to see.
Ofer Cohen (20:23):
In a way it's more meditative. Right?
Sue Donoghue (20:26):
Right. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah.
Ofer Cohen (20:28):
There's less of a likelihood you bump into someone you know
Sue Donoghue (20:32):
A little quieter Yup. Absolutely. But that's what amazing thing too is we find now that Park's busy, you know, 12 months of the year, I do used to be that there are quiet periods, but now people are running and biking and using the park all year round.
Ofer Cohen (20:47):
In the summer, I mean, there's a lot of stuff going on in the summer.. Give me some of the highlights, some things that you like.
Sue Donoghue (20:54):
I mean, we have a great partnership with BRIC celebrate Brooklyn and that concert series is really phenomenal.
Ofer Cohen (21:01):
I missed the Lizzo show.
Sue Donoghue (21:03):
Oh my gosh. It's so great. I know, I know. It was wonderful. That was with bustle. They did this great. Yeah. they've done the last couple of years we had Lizzo, we had Janell Monet an , Lakeside ends up being a great venue. You can put a stage and you have the backdrop of the Lake. It's gorgeous. but also at the Lakeside center all summer we have this free water play area, the splash pad that has just been tremendous, and has really activated that side of the park. And, families come and just camp out all day and it's great cause it's just free and open and kids love it and just run around and these and, you know, water. It's really great. Yeah, it's been wonderful.
Ofer Cohen (21:46):
I remember you telling me about some, issues with, people that are kind of living in tree houses in the park, I found it fascinating.
Sue Donoghue (21:54):
There's no doubt that the homeless crisis in the city, plays out in a really, really, significant degree in the park. It, you know, it does, it provides cover, it provides homes for people. and it's a challenge. And so we have a very regular, every two weeks, a whole operation going out and, working with the homeless, offering services, and, and letting people know it's not safe and we need to, we're going to have to come at some point and be able to, you know, take some clean up some of these things. So, it's, it's a real, it's a real challenge. And you're, you know, I'm concerned about it both from the health and well being of every new Yorker and also challenges for park goers and for our staff and, and people safety.
Ofer Cohen (22:51):
Do you feel like the trajectory of Central Park and Prospect Park are following a similar trajectory?
Sue Donoghue (22:58):
You know, it's such an interesting question Ofer. Prospect Park, the thing that we really value and, relish is the fact that it really is a neighborhood. It's a community park. We, we refer to it as Brooklyn's backyard. and that is, I think that's what makes it special and what really sets it apart from a central park and a lot of other places. It is where people come for their family reunions and their barbecues and whereas central park is much more tourists heavy, you know, whereas we see over 10 million visitors a year, they see 40 million visitors a year. so the impacts that they're dealing with are different and , in some senses greater. I think we really cherish and want to maintain that sense of it being really a community park and really for, the people of Brooklyn.
Ofer Cohen (23:53):
Is there anything that you feel like people should know about that that we didnt cover?
Sue Donoghue (23:58):
No, I do just think that people need to think of it as, not just a nice to have that it is really critical infrastructure, just as important as streets and roads and maintaining, other critical infrastructure in the city. People have chosen to live and raise their families. you know, in a big city like Brooklyn, it's incredibly important to have that green and open space if we didn't have Prospect Park. Imagine that, right.
Ofer Cohen (24:27):
I feel like, you know, every time I talk about Brooklyn and sort of looking at the map, like it's just like, it's just, it's really the heart of, it's really the heart of Brooklyn. So, we typically, and I know you've been a listener of the show because you tell me from time to time, we typically, I typically ask, at the end of the show will tell me something nobody knows about it. You, and I'm sure you've had some time to think about it. So it's not completely unprompted.
Sue Donoghue (24:54):
Something that nobody knows about me.
Ofer Cohen (24:59):
We only know you walking in the woods all by yourself.
Sue Donoghue (25:00):
I generally have company, but sometimes I do like to walk by myself. that, that I was a fierce, field hockey player back in the day. And that competitiveness and that, you know, competitive sport kind of thing is I think what drives me today and also drives my interest in, you know, staying fit and running. And you know, that, correlation between exercise and being healthy is, is critical to, you know, how we operate.
Ofer Cohen (25:40):
You still play hockey?
Sue Donoghue (25:41):
I don't play field hockey, you know, but I still, you know, you know, I run, I exercise a lot because it's, you know, kind of in the genes. I think it's like, it's what helps me to be able to manage my day to day.
Ofer Cohen (25:54):
That's very cool. Sue thank you so much.
Sue Donoghue (25:57):
It's been good to be here. Thanks so much.